no it was about asshole police apparently. when the officer was clearly doing his job. investigating an action by Rob that the officer deemed unusual enough to warrent him investigating further
No, I can quite clearly see you don't know the other side of the coin from your posts, I didn't really expect you to understand. I would say anecdotes are to the point, we form opinions based on experience and knowledge, as I said, other side of the coin to you. And 'certain areas' would likely be what Rob and I fall in to, so when they perceive that they see a young lad revving the nuts out of a bike, 90% of the time their suspicion would likely be correct that he should be stopped and is up to no good. I didn't say the police should treat everyone with disrespect because they need to instil a 'fear' in some areas, but the police in this particular incident work in a bad area, have saw something they deemed suspicious, through lack of knowledge or through suspicion that probably pays off most the time. They have then stopped him, as they should, and received an attitude from Rob and in my opinion haven't retaliated with one, which I would have done. I've been stopped by police for moving a bit too quickly, which fair enough is my fault. I've also been stopped because I was 'driving too slowly' (33 MPH in a 30) with noone behind me, the police to the left, behind me, which is obviously just to check my details and they had no real reason to stop me, just a suspicion. If it keeps more stolen cars, uninsured drivers or people without licenses off the road, I'm happy to be stopped for 5 minutes. If it makes me late for work, then I'll explain, it's tough sh*t.
What now? They're exactly the same thing. What is it you do with 'speech', if not project your opinions? Perhaps we're all free to sing? Or hum? Or mumble? Or talk endless sh*t about the football last weekend? If you're deprived of the opportunity to speak (project) your opinions, especially to or about the state, then you do not have freedom of speech. Simple as that. Drug dealers deal drugs because they don't respect the laws surrounding drugs (in fact, many people don't), and they see a business opportunity. That's a problem with the law not reflecting the prevailing public opinion of the day. It's not a problem caused by a lack of respect for the Police. The Police are almost entirely irrelevant in this particular area. Besides which, it's not drug dealers that cause any harm (at least, not through selling drugs). It's the users who resort to theft and other crime to fund their extremely expensive habit that cause harm. What the f**k happened to personal responsibility? I personally don't care what somebody else chooses to stick in their body. In fact, I respect their right to make that choice. It's when they cause harm to others to perpetuate that habit that they are in the wrong. And that's not the fault of the person who supplies their addiction. Where there's demand, there will follow supply. Once again, it's about time we treated the cause (i.e. why people choose to take drugs, and why they then resort to violence and theft to feed a habit), not the symptom (i.e. the drug dealers meeting demand). The British Police are not, and have never been especially powerful. They probably had a lot more respect in the past, which would have helped considerably in their duty. But as I've said many times, respect can be gained and lost, and it's their own fault if they've lost it. Let me say this one more time: The Police are not there to scare people. They're there to apprehend criminals. I want the Police to do their job well and catch criminals. The more they catch, the better. The more likely they are to deliver justice for anybody's loss, the better. Their success will deter some of those who would otherwise commit crime. All good things. But for the police to instil fear by treating people, whoever they are, with contempt just because something wrongly aroused their 'suspicion', is absolutely wrong. Innocent until proven guilty.
do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law fk em. if im doing something wrong, then i know i am, and i am not arsed about the consequences otherwise i wouldnt do it. what is annoying, is when you are doing nothing wrong and you are inconvenienced by a pull.... how many times have you been pulled over and you can see people driving past with no seatbelts on, on the mobiles etc.... not faulting the plod, even though i have more reason than most here to hate them and all they stand for...sometimes i have needed them and they have done their job well, like when my daughter went missing.... when i got burgled... when my bike(s) got robbed etc.
EDIT: danny on wrong account again. You appear to be extremely ignorant towards teh realities of society and havent spent anytime around drug dealers, criminals or such. I have. For most of my life. FTM= f*ck the matrix... A team of police formed to put fear into drug dealers. at first it worked, then they had their powers limited by idealists and boom, it doesnt work no more. maybe if you go and live in an area of a city plagued by violence, drugs, and hatred toowards police and watch what happens you will understand. Forming your oppinions based on what newspapers say and what you read in books is useless in the real world. What your saying is basically along the lines of 'TEENAGERS WEAR HOODIES COS THEY ARE COLD' when in actual fact they wear them because they can hide their identity and intimidate people and unless a curfew is in force in a particular area there is nothing the police can do. This is gonna continue with no agreement between us. but I can assure you politics and socio economice mean nothin on the streets. save that sh*t for parliament and when an officer stops you. just let him do his job, am quite sure if every person you dealt with took an attitude towards you for doing your job you would be pushed towards the human nature to bite back.
Jolly good film, the Matrix :thumbup: You're going a very round about way to tell me that I'm not 'streetwise'. Thing is, it's all to easy to forget that this country (along with much of the developed world) has battled restlessly through centuries of hardship and political struggle to arrive at a point where we can genuinely hope to enjoy a pluralist, liberal, democratic, free state. We take that for granted, but we often don't realise how valuable but fragile it is. And for that to continue, we cannot also operate a Police state. The two things simply do not operate hand in hand. So, please excuse the french, but f**k anyone who thinks that the wider population of this country is willing to throw all that away because the easiest way to deal with a bunch of c**ts in inner city Liverpool (or wherever else) is to impose extremely authoritarian policing. If we want freedom and democracy, we have to tackle these problems the hard way (yes, deal with socio-economic problems). I don't read the papers because they're usually full of partisan nonsense and false hype, and that's just the good ones. The tabloids seem to be entirely devoid of information of any value or merit whatsoever. But you might find it beneficial to read a book or two. Knowledge is power. And history has a very dependable habit of repeating itself.
our very own howard marks! (except he only moved hash) ive just been watching the film version of mr nice, and its not a patch on the book. http://howardmarks.name/books/
[info='information']can we keep this to a debate and not a slagging match, no need to taunt and mock people who you dont know!!![/info]
Bloody Hell Didnt Realise I Was Going To Turn This Into A Mass Debate Haha, Just Want To Make Things Clear! 1 I had an attitude with the police officer because he had one with me 2 The Police officer was fine with me until i proved him wrong 3 The title asshole police was because he was having the attitude with me 4 if someone has a problem with me i will have a problem with them, im not going to kiss ass (especially when im not in the wrong) 5 After he realised he was in the wrong he was being a complete tit by trying to find anything that might of been up with my bike just so he could pull his head of his arse because he had just been shut down basically And Lastly had the police officer appoligised after the incident maybe just a oh sorry i didnt realsie it was a manual choke, thank you for taking the time out and explaining it to me then fair enough.....but he still threatened to write me a ticket for excessive noise and was trying to play me for an idiot as if i was purposly revving the bollox off my bike! thats what this post was all about not that fact that he wasnt doing his job right or that being a police officer is an easy job (i certanally couldnt do it and i doubt most of us can) (and good on danny for giving it a go).....the post was to say that even after i had explained to him that my choke was on and thats why the loud revving he got a bigger attitude towards me and basically started picking on me by trying to take me for a fool! Rant over haha
Now now... You can do better than that Danny. As I said earlier, it's nothing personal. This is a discussion forum and these are very serious issues. It would be wrong to gloss over the topic and not engage in the proper debate that is warranted. As you say, we clearly aren't going to agree (which is absolutely fine), so we'll leave it at that.
danny again If its not personal why talk to me as if I am thick. Your opinion is a reflection of 2nd generation information or 3rd party perspectives, mine is from direct social interaction and professional interaction with people from this type of background. I assure you your knowledge may be useful in the classroom, but out on the street its worthless.
That's the way I write when I'm trying to communicate an argument in am emphatic manner about something which I consider very important. Take it on face value. Whatever subtext you read into it is what you choose to read into it. We're somewhat at cross purposes here. We're talking on the one hand about drug dealers in inner city Liverpool, on the other hand about Rob's stop, and then about wider attitudes to Policing. I don't for a moment deny that the Police encounter extreme hostility and difficulty in certain areas, and must respond proportionately in order to get their job done. Nor do I envy their role. Quite the opposite. But when we're talking about the Police stopping innocent motorists because their suspicions were misguided/misinformed, their approach should remain entirely reasonable, and they should certainly not seek to further punish the innocent for having the audacity to explain their innocence, and express their dissatisfaction. As for the rest of it. You might not think the big picture is relevant on the ground in day to day Policing. In the longer term, however, it's the most important thing.
bloody hell ive just spend 20 mins reading this through from the first post couldnt stop reading quite a debate! im gonna have to agree with alex's view on this though not all coppers are arseholes but this one certainly was, i dont think Rob had an unfair attitude to the copper all he did was point out that no my bike is revving high because of the choke. at this point the copper should have just had the decency to say ok sir i apologise on your way, instead of trying to find another fault on which to issue a ticket. clearly Brashy has a certain respect for the police and might have aspirations to be one, in which case i hope your one of the good ones pal but this particular one sounds like a c**t!
wow!!!! that took ages to read ! and now av got a headache aperbag: to be fair, if someone stopped me at daft o'clock with an attitude he'd get it straight back, speak to people the way you would like to be spoken to, dont matter who you are, body language plays apart as well for me, bloody traffic warden stood right outside my passenger window the other day as if he wanted a fight! all puffy chest, threatening posture, if my daughter wasnt in the car i would of got out and mirrored exactelly what he was doing, see how he feels, intimidation doesnt work with me :x might of been the wrong time of day, both of you could of been in a bad mood before hand, sh*t happens!
Firstly, at this point this argument(discussion)has really got out of hand AND should have been locked by a mod imho. We are ALL NWB wether it be NWB from a upperclass background or jenny from the block! we AS A COLECTIVE have the right to our own oppinions, brashy yours is obviously with the opinion that the police are great, this is not an oppinion I myself or obviously a lot of others in this forum share BUT lets not get down to threats! Lets ALL AGREE to diagree and get on with the one thing we can all agree on is BIKES ARE AWSUM! Now can someone tell me wtf Lowies are????? in my day it were a shite night club in sintellins.
/me brings out the paddling pool full of beans and foam bats.. Just a suggestion if ya decide to bash it out !! Ya can't get hurt with foam bats and baked beans !! Also great for stress relief and relieving tension :thumbsup:
