Hi just like to say thanks to Daz for a really good route, will definitely be doing that one again :thumbsup: Shame my tyres were not doing what I asked them to do :w00t: but never mind I still enjoyed it :thumbup: just in case some of you are wondering where I got to, I hung back at the last roundabout just before the A483 because I couldn't see Stuoe, when I finally found him and rejoined the route you'd all gone off so I just came back towing Stuoe, It was a great day out, and nice to meet everyone, but on the sad side I must say I was a bit disappointed that i was left behind when I was only trying to make sure that a rider was safe, and also Benny/Vvtr should not have been put in that situation on his own. When group ridding I think you should always adopt the second rider drop off rule, that way nobody can get lost or hurt without someone knowing. If you'd seen what Benny and myself witnessed the other week while out with VTR forum you'd know exactly why it's so important, one of the lads came off (nice steady rider) on a remote moore near Rayder in Wales, the drop of rider said he'd not seen him so Benny and myself went back, after about 6 miles Benny said he can't be this far up we must have gone wrong, I said no we must carry on untill we cover the last drop off point, anyway we found him (well not him his bike about 9 miles into the Moore) where usually a car might pass every 2 hours but luckily for him one went past within a few minutes and took him to Hospital, so as you can see without the second drop of rider rule we'd never have found him without the aid of an hellicopter, and if you could see the road he was on, things could have been a lot worse. Sorry for the moan guys but it's SECOND RIDER DROP OFF RULE FOR ME EVERY TIME
Spoke to my old man last night and he had a great day to and happy to hear that Martin got home eventually. I will keep my eyes pealed for a left hand crank case mate. Everyone else on the trip thanks for coming over and making the effort I think you were rewarded with the mint weather and if you wan another great day in Wales just post up and I will be happy to lead. Perhaps an earlier start will see us deeper into some great roads.
Cheers for the great route yesterday daz. Duuno where it went wrong after the ponderosa, just plodded on and didn't see anyone until kev caught me on the m55. Bummer about the chain Martin, but at least your ok. Cya all next time
A few people have asked me to post the route we took in Wales so here it is: http://www.bing.com/maps/#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 It is a great run & one that I take regularly
sorry guys, totally gutted now - just looked at the go pro footage and took 3 vids, one at 37 seconds, one at 42 and the other one 6 seconds. so basically got fk all on camera apart from pulling away from carparks. will make sure it has new batteries in next time. i usually carry a spare set but had left them in my other jacket on the plus side, i just scored a new engine for 50 quid.
nah m8 ordered some 12:1 porsche pistons as well and full gasket set, might as well do it proper, new shells, clutch bearing, big ends etc.. no point doing half a job. already got gas flowed heads, better valve springs, hrc cams etc so will be putting my bling in the new engine and completely rebuilding it all being well. gearbox is on the way out in mine anyway due to me never using the clutch lol!
sorry to hear about your chain martin a right bummer that one, after a great day out, question is does wales like you? also sad to read a bit of a moan from cheekykev, when me and daz are out in wales he leads and i ride tailed end cos i am old and the slowest so any probs and i pick them up i.e breakdowns, slow riders, any one getting lost as did happen yesterday as it was the rider turned up after going on his own and taking the wrong route, but you make a good point and maybe the answer is for everybody to ride to stay reasonably together , no shooting of solo and getting lost as was the case yesterday. last time out with martin and co he broke down on his kwaky and the system worked o.k. lets have another outing pretty soon.
thing is its ok saying all stick together in a tighter pack but theres no way im going to spend all day riding 45mph and slowing down for bends lol! using the marker system like we did, with a lead and back marker, it worked ok tbh. was only really on the way home when everybody more or less took their own routes as we all peeled off in different directions. all it takes is better communication at stops so everyone knows where the next stop is and where we're heading. same on the way home. if some want to ride at a slower pace that's fine... it's not a race, but they have to accept that others are on quicker machines and enjoy nailing the twisties... we all meet up again at the next stop so it's no biggy as long as everyone knows the route it's ok. regarding me being left on me tod lol, we had just filled up and discussed the route back from there, i said i'd continue down the a49 and the 2 hudds lads (ziggy & bro) would follow sean to get back on the mway.... they saw me come out of the garage behind them so assumed i had took my own route. i knew this & was ok with it - there was fk all anyone could do to help anyway, just had to wait a bit for recovery. with stueo.... getting lost, lagging behind... before anyone says anything, ive ridden behind stu for 50 miles+ and not seen him make a single mistake. the lad is actually a very good rider but just does not take chances like some of us do, is in no rush to overtake and rides at his own pace. i do not worry for a second that he might have fell off and know he will catch up sooner or later (usually later lol!) i would prefer someone to ride like that than push beyond their limits to keep up & end up having an off. theres always a few who want to nail off ahead when we come to a clear bit with nice bends but you can't expect everyone to go that quick... just we have to be carefull not to exclude riders and put people off joining a ride cos they think they can't keep up. in this particular case, with this ride... no route was posted and no clear meeting points and times were posted as riders were coming from all over, some at short notice.... this meant for example, AndyB missed the ride and was 20 mile behind us trying to find us at every stop, paul missed the ride, meeting times were fkt up and the welsh posse were left waiting ages for us to arrive. mostly this was my fault lol as i just wanted to get as many out for a ride as possible & didnt really give a fk where we went as long as it was a good ride out. (which it was!) maybe next time post up the route there & back, with clear pre-arranged meeting times etc
I had a great day yesterday with great company as normal. Daz those roads are awesome to say the least. Getting onto the apparent situations I do understand unfortunatley I had no idea where Stueo or Kev were due to my lack of raod knowledge around that area. I am actually unsure as to where or at what point we became seperated, the two lads from Huddersfield and myself waited for a while (20 mins) before Martin found us. At that point we assumed that you had gone your own way or we would bump into you both (Kev and Stu), I understand that we started together so we should end the ride together but the sequences of situations did not allow us to do that (basically sh*t happens). Regards Martin I felt bad once I heard what had happened but like he said we discussed the route, I saw him leave the gararge and again assumed he had gone a different route as we had discussed the way home and the lads from Huddersfield could follow me. I for one will make sure that in the future we all know the destination and the route so if we get seperated we can meet at a meeting point or at a destination. Cheers for a great day lads and the butty bar was awesome.
Thanks Daz for Map post,glad Benny sorted,Glad eveyone got home safe and sound, Just needs a bit more communicatin next. IE stopping places etc.
totaly agree with you martin when out rideing everybody do there thing, it was and has been in the past, good ride outs, and may they continue, the system worked and was no problem, i enjoyed myself and as far as i know so did everybody else , so was taken aback by the whinge from kev, but no probs if it is structural critisism we will learn from it.
was speaking to kev earlier and he didnt want it to be taken as a whinge or criticism - he isnt a negative bloke and was just concerned about people getting left behind & lost. last time out for us on a mass ride we used the marker system but unfortunately the back man came off and got hospitalised with bent bike on a very remote mountain run. if we hadnt been using the system he couldve been there all night on his own. it's for our own good really. takes a bit of getting used to but it means that everyone can ride how they want, no-one gets lost and everyone is accounted for. if someone does have an off or break down the rest of the riders know he/she is only on the last stretch and they will be easy to locate quickly. we should practice it more when we go out - takes a bit to get it working smoothly but is well worth it as it gives everyone more freedom. the front rider and rest of the group can nail on at whatever pace, if it's good enough for plod it's good enough for us i'm sure someone can explain it better than me - maybe it's worth someone putting a set of instructions / description / rules up as a sticky?
I think you may have misunderstood me, I didn't want it to sound like I was moaning I was referring to later in the day when we split up from you guys and headed off home, that's when it all got a bit messy and nobody seemed to know what was happening, the ride was fantastic and can't wait to do it again, I really enjoyed the day and the people, it's just that Benny/Vvtr and myself both know how good and important the marker system is, it works well, everyone gets the chance to ride how ever they like without wondering what's going on and looking in your mirror all the time to make sure everyone else is ok, this in itself taking some of your concentration off your ridding. I’m sure Benny/Vvtr or anyone who’s familiar with the system would agree that The Marker System is not a boring systematic military type operation, It’s quite the opposite, it allows everyone to get on with it and ride as fast or as slow as they like without worrying about others, therefore you can concentrate fully on what you are doing with no distractions, trust me it works and works well For those that don't know the basic system works like so:- THE MARKING SYSTEM In order for the marking to work you need three core components. The run leader. The person that knows the route and is happy to lead. The back marker works with the run leader The markers - everyone else on the run HOW IT WORKS 1. At all junctions and turns, including exits off roundabouts, the rider who is directly behind the run leader becomes the `MARKER` 2. The Marker must stop to indicate to each of the following riders the correct direction to take. 3. Stop in a safe place where you can be seen clearly, before junctions, on exits, not hidden around side turns. 4. Leaving an indicator on, or a hand signal, can be useful. 5. The Marker must wait until all riders have passed and then re-join the group in front of the back marker. If the back marker passes you for safety or some other reason, catch up and you will be allowed to pass and re-join the group. 6. The Marker must stay in their position until either the back marker or the run leader collects them :thumbsup:
I wasn't out in Wales so I can't comment on Saturday's ride particularly. Sorry Kev but these two statements are contradictary. It's not possible to choose to ride faster (if you'd like) when you must stay in position behind someone potentially much slower. That exerts unnecessary pressure on the slower rider to push themselves, and frustration on the part of the rider who wants to take the road at a faster pace. From my experience: With groups smaller than 5, I's always advocate that all riders wait at any turning until everyone has caught up (helps to keep the route simple). For small to medium groups (5-10 people), I personally prefer a corner marking system where each individual must always continue straight ahead unless they see someone turning, and wait at any turning (to mark the turning) until the following rider is in sight, at which point the marker can continue. For larger groups, it's best to do this but with multiple groups to account for significant differences in pace over distance. On that basis, everyone can choose to ride at their own position in the group depending on their own pace relative to others. So long as everyone adhers to the waiting at turning rule, nobody gets left behind or unaccounted for and nobody gets frustrated. To make doubly sure that nobody is left behind, you can also have a tail runner who knows the route in detail.
Hey Alex how you keeping? do you remember us having the conversation on the ferry to the ring about back marking and how i said it never works? ha ha great in theory hard to put into practice successfully. Lovely bike by the way pal.
Nah, he means the marker guy waits at the junction. It's up to him then to go as fast/slow as he wants. Obviously if you then ovetrake the lead rider you run the risk of missing a turn and getting yourself lost!!. On all the large group ride outs i've been on the drop off system is by far the best for keeping everyone together. Biggest problem is making sure everyons knows who the back marker is and does acually wait for them.
Yeap that's it you've got it :thumbsup: it's not that easy to put into words, well it isn't for me, also people tend to read text and interprit it differently.
I know this was a while ago now, but my brother just sent me a couple of photos he took from the stop at that Cafe. Thought I would post them on here as I quite like them.
